August 1996Penpoint Article


The Great Debate Gets Personal

Michael Butler

Those of us who were followers of Dr. Greg Bahnsen's ministry know that a large portion of his time was spent defending the Christian faith. He is particularly known for his interaction with atheist opponents including a formal debate with Dr. Gordon Stein in 1985 at University of California, Irvine, and with Edward Tabash in 1993 at University of California, Davis. He was also scheduled to debate Professor Michael Martin (Boston University) at Rhodes College in 1994. This last event never took place because of an eleventh hour pull-out by Dr. Martin for what seem to be ambiguous reasons.1

The result of both debates was the same-Dr. Bahnsen's trenchant defense of Christian theism appeared to many to overwhelm both opponents. Dr. Bahnsen believed Dr. Martin to be a worthy opponent and regretted they were not able to meet in debate. 2

Now, after Dr. Bahnsen has been gone for eight months, these three men decided once again that they would like to debate him.3 The Internet Infidels have published articles and interviews with these men stating their dissatisfaction with both SCCCS and Dr. Bahnsen. Dr. Martin alone has something of substance to say about the philosophical issues.

I will begin this extended issue of Penpoint by addressing the personal attacks against Dr. Bahnsen and SCCCS and then go on to Dr. Martin's criticism of the transcendental argument for the existence of God [TAG for short].

Before beginning I should note that it is generally not the policy of Penpoint to engage in defending our organization from personal attacks. However, since the charges were made public, the Board and staff of SCCCS believe it is necessary for us to respond publicly. It would have been preferable to discuss these issues in a different forum, but since these men chose to make these accusations public before addressing them to us, we must reply in kind.

Dr. Gordon Stein

According to Jeffery Jay Lowder of Internet Infidels: "Gordon Stein concedes that Greg Bahnsen was able to catch him off-guard with TAG [the transcendental argument for God's existence] (although Stein says he now has a refutation of the argument)." Lowder goes on, "[H]e was even more surprised to learn that SCCCS was marketing tapes of the debate. Stein claims that the agreement he signed with Bahnsen allowed each debater to record the debate for their own personal use, but contained no provisions whatsoever for mass-duplication and distribution. Stein does feel this constitutes good grounds for a lawsuit, but does not have any plans to sue SCCCS."

There are two things to be said in response to this statement.4 First, Dr. Stein's portrayal of the signed agreement is completely inaccurate. The Agreement speaks for itself:

Tape Distribution Agreement:

We the undersigned participants in the debate, "Does God Exist?," held on February 11, 1985, at the University of California, Irvine, hereby grant to one another (and to one another's agents or sponsoring organizations) permission to advertize [sic], distribute and market copies of the audio tape of the debate without financial consideration or remuneration to ourselves for the other debater's advertizing [sic], distribution, or sales of that tape.

We further agree (1) not to edit or alter the tape of the debate which is supplied to us by the Debate Team of U.C.I., and (2) not to distribute or sell any copies of that tape which have been edited or altered.

This statement is signed by Dr. Bahnsen, Dr. Stein, and the debate moderator.5 Even if a poor memory is to blame for Dr. Stein's error, it is disappointing that he would not take the time to check out the facts before putting forth the threat of a lawsuit.

Second, though Dr. Stein confidently asserts that he now has a refutation of the transcendental argument for God's existence, neither I nor anybody else at SCCCS has ever heard it. Where is this proffered refutation to be found? Until Dr. Stein produces something in writing or on tape, we cannot comment on its substance or value.

One further comment on Dr. Stein. After the debate, he and Dr. Bahnsen engaged in an extended correspondence. They went over TAG in great detail. Their exchange ended in an impasse with, not surprisingly, both disputants believing they had the better of it. Not wanting to let the matter just drop, Dr. Bahnsen suggested that their letters be published so that more objective minds could judge the matter (Prov. 12:15). Dr. Stein's response was to threaten a lawsuit if the correspondence was published.6 It seems threatening lawsuits is a habit of Dr. Stein's. But even more interesting is the fact that here Dr. Stein had an extended opportunity to refute TAG, but obviously failed to do so (or at least does not want anybody to know about it).

Edward Tabash

According to Mr. Lowder, Mr. Tabash asserts that Dr. Bahnsen "handled himself miserably during the debate," and adds, "he was vicious, harsh, and treated me like a criminal." Moreover, "he never capably responded to my arguments discrediting religious supernaturalism."

This is a surprising claim since many who have heard the debate believe that both men behaved in accordance with debate protocal. Such statements are one reason Dr. Bahnsen insisted that debates be recorded. We invite you to listen to the tape and judge for yourself. The only place where Bahnsen may have seemed harsh to some was when he said Mr. Tabash was a fool. He made it clear, however, that this was not a personal slander. Rather, he was quoting from Psalm 14 ("The fool says in his heart 'there is no God'"). Perhaps Mr. Tabash did not agree, but in the absence of his refuting Christianity the biblical description stands.

Mr. Tabash's claim that Dr. Bahnsen never capably responded to his arguments is evidence of his self-deception. The truth of the matter is that Mr. Tabash did not attempt to respond to TAG. It appears he did not even understand Dr. Bahnsen's argument. Again, listen to the debate and judge for yourself.7

Dr. Michael Martin

Dr. Michael Martin has had some pointed words for us as well. According to Mr. Lowder, Dr. Martin describes his experience with SCCCS as "one of the most unpleasant in his life." What would he have thought had he shown up for the debate? In any case, if this experience was indeed one of the most unpleasant of his life we must conclude that life must be good at his tax-payer-supported post at Boston University.

Dr. Martin has also stated that the event organizer, Marty Fields, was "mortified by SCCCS's action and expressed amazement that Christians could act in such an un-Christian way." (The action being referred to is a press release that SCCCS sent out after the debate was aborted charging Dr. Martin with having inconsistent and dubious reasons for pulling out.8) Skeptical that Rev. Fields made such a remark, I spoke with him shortly after I read this charge and he promptly assured me that he never made such a remark to Dr. Martin or anybody else. He did think the press release was "harsh at points," but this is a far cry from describing it as un-Christian.9

Before turning to more substantive issues let me reiterate that SCCCS's intention in defending ourselves and Dr. Bahnsen's reputation against these personal charges is not to embarrass these three men. We would have been happy to have addressed these matters in private and thereby obviate the need to air these matters publicly. Moreover, we are not above criticism. If any of these three men bring forth legitimate complaints about our conduct it behooves us as Christians to take the necessary steps to correct any wrongs we have committed. Nevertheless, none of the charges and innuendoes brought forth so far are justified.

TAG vs TANG

With this said, I shall now turn to Dr. Martin's philosophical attack on the Christian faith. In response to the transcendental argument for God's existence (TAG),10 Dr. Martin puts forth what he calls the transcendental argument for the non-existence of God (TANG).11

Before responding to the details of his argument, some understanding of TAG is helpful. Basically TAG asserts that only the Christian worldview provides the necessary preconditions for the intelligibility of human experience. That is, only the Christian view of God, creation, providence, revelation, and human nature can make sense of the world in which we live. So, for example, only the Christian worldview can make sense out of morality since it alone provides the necessary presuppositions for making ethical evaluations, namely, an absolute and personal Law Giver who reveals His moral will to mankind. It does not make sense, however, for the atheist/materialist to denounce any action as wrong since, according to his worldview, all that exists is matter in motion. And matter in motion is inherently non-moral. That is, since the world according to the materialist is totally explicable in terms of physical processes, and since physical processes are categorically non-moral, moral considerations have no place in his worldview. Thus for the materialist to say that stealing is morally wrong makes as much sense as saying that the secretion of insulin from the pancreas is morally wrong.12

With this thumbnail sketch of TAG in mind, we can now turn to Dr. Martin's counter-argument, TANG. TANG concludes that, "logic, science and morality presuppose the falsehood of the Christian world view." Dr. Martin notes that " If TANG is a sound argument, then obviously TAG is not." He then adds that even if TANG is a failure this does not mean TAG is successful-both could be unsound. He, of course, is correct on both counts.

There are two basic ways to respond to this. One is to simply attempt to refute TANG.13 The problem with this route is that even if successful the soundness of TAG is still unknown. The other approach is to defend the soundness of TAG and in so doing, show the unsoundness of TANG-if TAG is sound TANG is not. In what follows I will try to do some of both. I will show that not only is TANG unsound, but that TAG is sound.

Logic

Dr. Martin begins with logic. I quote the heart of his argument. "[1]. . . if something . . . is dependent on God, it is not necessary-it is contingent on God. [2] And if principles of logic are contingent on God, they are not logically necessary. Moreover, [3] if principles of logic are contingent on God, God could change them. [4] Thus, God could make the law of non-contradiction false."14 Let's take each contention in turn.

Is [1] true? Is it true that if something is dependent upon God (i.e. ontologically dependent) it is not necessary? Dr. Martin assures us that it is, but fails to give any argument for this general principle. Perhaps he thinks it is definitional. If this is so then we may grant him the point. Note, however, that all he would be asserting is that if logic is dependent on God, then it is not independent of God ('not independent' is used as a synonym for 'not necessary'). But this is a mere truism, much like the statement, "water is water." While true, it is completely uninteresting.

In [2] Dr. Martin contends that if the principles of logic are contingent (read: dependent) on God they are not logically necessary. How does this follow from [1] though? It follows only if Dr. Martin means 'not logically necessary' by 'contingent.' But if this is the case then we have to go back to [1] and reinterpret it to mean "if something is dependent on God it is not logically necessary.' And this surely is not definitional. Where then is the proof for it? How does it follow that because something is ontologically dependent upon God that it is not logically necessary? As it stands it is a mere assertion; an assertion that merely contradicts the Christian claim that all things, logic included, are dependent upon God, and yet logic is logically necessary.

Thus Dr. Martin's move from [1] to [2] trades on the ambiguity of the word 'contingent.' In equivocating on the two senses of the word he erroneously moves from the statement "the principles of logic are contingent on God" to the statement "the principles of logic are not logically necessary."

Turning to [3] and [4], it is clear that Dr. Martin means these to be a reductio ad absurdum. But note that [3] is not true at all. Just because the principles of logic are ontologically dependent upon God does not mean that God could change them. According to Christian theology, there are some things that God cannot do. God, for instance, cannot deny Himself (2 Tim. 2:13) or lie (Titus 1:2). In saying this nothing is taken away from God's omnipotence. The doctrine of omnipotence does not teach that God can do anything, but that God can do anything that is in accordance with His nature. Since God is essentially rational and rationality presupposes the principles of logic, it would go against His nature to change the principles of logic. Hence God cannot change them and hence God cannot make the law of non-contradiction false.15

Since [3] is not true then obviously [4] is not either. And since [4] is false, Dr. Martin's reductio fails. Logic does not presuppose the falsehood of the Christian worldview. But as Dr. Martin reminds us, even if logic does not presuppose the falsehood of Christianity this does not mean it presupposes the truth of Christianity. Perhaps logic comports with both Christian and non-Christian worldviews.

Let us now turn the tables on Dr. Martin and make a defense of TAG. Recall that the contention of TAG is that principles of logic presuppose the Christian worldview. How on an atheist worldview can the laws of logic be justified? Given a world that is constituted solely of material substances (I assume that Dr. Martin is a materialistic atheist) how does the atheist account for non-material logical laws? They certainly are not reducible to matter since if they were, they would not be laws-laws are not something that can be physically examined. Moreover, since the principles of logic are universal in nature they are not reducible to any particular physical object or objects. But if they are not reducible matter what are they?

It does no good to say they are mental abstractions since neither abstractions nor minds are possible within an atheist worldview. Nor can they be conventional since if they were they could be changed. And if they can be changed then absurdities follow-the statement that Bill Clinton is President of the United States could be both true and false.

Finally, because the principles of logic are abstract and universal, they cannot be experienced to be true. Thus such things as the law of non-contradiction are just highly confirmed inductions. Not only are there some laws of logic that are too complex to be observed, but this view would make logic contingent because there is always the possibility of a future observation disconfirming that law. But if logic is contingent then, as Dr. Martin has pointed out, absurdities become possible. To borrow his example, New Zealand could be both south of China and not south of China.16

Thus the atheistic worldview does not comport with the principles of logic. If atheists were consistent with their worldview, they would give up on logic and rationality altogether. But since they do behave rationally (at least some of the time) this shows that they are borrowing capital from another worldview.

That the Christian worldview can account for the principles of logic is readily demonstrable. Christianity allows for abstract and universal laws. Abstract because the Christian worldview teaches that more things exist than material objects. Thus it makes sense for there to be abstractions. Moreover, the universality of logic is possible because it is grounded in the character of God. God is by nature logical. And this all-powerful, all-knowing God orders all things in accordance with them.

Science

Dr. Martin asserts that science and Christianity are incompatible. He argues that since science presupposes the uniformity of nature and since Christian theology teaches that God can and does perform miracles (which Dr. Martin defines as violations of the uniformity of nature) science is inconsistent with Christianity. But why is this so? Even granting his definition of a miracle, why does it follow that science becomes impossible if there is no absolute uniformity of nature? Dr. Martin does not tell us.

I would guess that he would contend that scientists would have an insurmountable epistemological problem. Scientists would never know whether to fix the cause of an event to natural laws or to divine intervention. But this is not true. How does it follow that there is no way to distinguish between a miracle and a event that is in accordance to natural laws?

Dr. Martin's definition of miracles, moreover, is somewhat defective. Christian theology teaches that God providentially is in charge of all events. All events are under his direct control. There are thus no impersonal natural laws.

Under Dr. Martin's definition, all events are miraculous. The Christian view of miracles is that they are events God causes to come about in a different way from His regular pattern for directing events. Thus when humans die they usually stay dead. But in the case of Jesus, God raised Him up. In doing so God did not violate a natural law, but rather departed from His regular pattern of action.

Dr. Martin then states, "science assumes that insofar as an event has an explanation at all, it has a scientific explanation-one that does not presuppose God." All Dr. Martin is telling us here is his view of science. But this begs the whole question. Of course atheistic scientists assume this, but Christian scientists do not. This does nothing to advance Dr. Martin's argument that miracles are incompatible with science.

Dr. Martin begs the question regarding miracles. As Dr. Bahnsen has written: unbelievers "often think that they are treating the miracle-claims of the Bible as independent evidence that the Christian worldview is irrationally unacceptable. Their reasoning is something like this: we already know miracles do not occur ('How could anybody believe...'), and since Christianity claims that such impossible things did occur (e.g., virgin birth, resurrection), we can draw the conclusion that Christianity must be false. But that conclusion is not so much "drawn" as it is taken for granted from the very outset. The denial of the very posibility of miracles is not a piece of evidence for rejecting the Christian worldview, but simply a specific manifestation of that very rejection.

Only if the Christian worldview happens to be false could the possibility of miracles be cogently precluded. According to Scripture's account, God is the transcendent and almighty Creator of heaven and earth. Everything owes its very existence and character to His creative power and definition (Gen. 1; Neh. 9:6; Col. 1:16-17). He makes things the way they are and determines that they function as they do. 'His understanding is infinite' (Ps. 147:5). Moreover, God sovereignly governs every event that transpires, determining what, when, where, and how anything takes place-from the movement of the planets to the decrees of kings to the very hairs of our heads (Eph. 1:11). According to the Bible, He is omnipotent and in total control of the universe. Isaiah 40 celebrates in famous phraseology the creation, delineating, directing, providence, and power of Jehovah (vv. 12, 22-28). He has the freedom and control over the created order that the potter has over the clay (Rom. 9:21). As the Psalmist affirms, 'Our God is in the heavens; He has done whatsoever He pleased' (115:3)."17

It is on the atheist's worldview that there is no basis to assume the uniformity of nature. The philosopher David Hume has taught us that to say the future will be like the past is to beg the question.18 Since the uniformity of nature is an unjustified assumption on the atheist's worldview, he has no basis upon which to engage in scientific activities.19

That the uniformity of nature is compatible with the Christian worldview is easily proven (remember that this unity is not an absolute one). God, who is providentially in control of all events, has revealed to us that we can count on regularities in the natural world. The Bible teaches that God providentially causes the harvest to come in due season, for example. Because of this regularity, we can be assured that scientific endeavors will be fruitful. Thus, far from presupposing the falsity of Christianity, science would be impossible without the truth of the Christian worldview.

Ethics

Dr. Martin last turns to morality. He contends that "objective morality" is incompatible with Christian theology since morality is dependent upon the will of God. And since God can will whatever he wishes (he could will that killing other people for pleasure is good), morality is arbitrary.

This contention only has teeth to those theologians who hold a voluntaristic view of God.20 But this is not what the Bible teaches. Scripture teaches that God cannot deny Himself (2 Tim. 2:13) and that He is immutable. Thus God cannot call good evil nor evil good. Dr. Martin will then press the issue by saying that it is arbitrary to say that God's immutable character is good. This is to completely miss the point. Because God is absolute and personal His character defines good. The notion that there could be an impersonal ethical standard is absurd. Ethics are necessarily personal. Thus they must either be grounded in an absolute and personal God or grounded in non-absolute persons. The latter is what atheism teaches. But this leads to ethical relativism. Without an absolute person, which non-absolute person should we listen to? There is no non-arbitrary way of deciding. Thus to say that it is arbitrary to ground goodness in the character of God is simply to disagree with the Christian worldview.

It is the atheist's worldview that cannot account for ethics. As I stated above, material processes are non-moral in nature. It makes no sense to say that the orbit of the moon is morally commendable or reprehensible and neither does it make sense to say that human actions are commendable or reprehensible since humans are merely material.

Dr. Bahnsen writes:

"What philosophy of value or morality can the unbeliever offer which will render it meaningful to condemn some atrocity as objectively evil? The moral indignation which is expressed by unbelievers when they encounter the wicked things which transpire in this world does not comport with the theories of ethics which unbelievers espouse, theories which prove to be arbitrary or subjective or merely utilitarian or relativistic in character. In the unbeliever's worldview, there is no good reason for saying that anything is evil in nature, but only by personal choice or feeling."21

Atheists often contend that we derive ethical norms from the way people typically behave. Even assuming people typically behave in a good manner (a big assumption indeed), this gets the atheist nowhere. Asserting that because the world is this way, it ought to be this way is fallacious. Just because I am presently using Word 6.0 to write this paper does not mean that I ought to be using Word 6.0.

The atheist has no way out. If he wishes to uphold morality he must give up his atheism. If he wants to keep his atheism he must give up on morality. So for an atheist to accuse a Christian of bad behavior, he must presuppose the Christian worldview. But since he claims not to presuppose the truth of Christianity he should be consistent and not be concerned over moral matters.

Conclusion

Since TANG fails in all three areas its failure is total. Logic, science, and morality do not presuppose the non-existence of God. Indeed the very opposite is true. In order to make sense of any of these subjects, we must presuppose the God of the Bible. Hence by the very logic that Dr. Martin uses to try to refute Christianity, he must presuppose the truth of Christianity. And this is precisely why Dr. Martin and his two atheist colleagues may be branded fools. Though they know the God of the Bible, they suppress this knowledge and in so doing deceive themselves.22 Thus professing to be wise they have become fools for they have exchanged the truth of God for a lie and have worshipped and served created things rather than their Creator, who is forever praised (Rom.1).


FOOTNOTES

1 For those with Internet access see our web site for details about Dr. Martin's withdrawal. [http://www.cleaf.com/~covenant].
2 Call CMF and order tapes of the debates. Also, for a detailed analysis and critique of Dr. Martin's work order "Michael Martin Under the Microscope." Catalog #ASM3-12 tapes-$68.
3 This reminds me of Gary North's prediction: now that Dr. Bahnsen is gone everybody will want to debate him.
4 Actually there are three. Since Covenant Media Foundation markets the debate tapes, it would make little sense to sue SCCCS.
5 For a facsimile of the Agreement see the SCCCS web site.
6 We are presently talking to our attorney to see if his threatened lawsuit has any merit. If not, look for a publication of their correspondences in the months ahead.
7 It is interesting to note that, as far as I am aware, neither Dr. Stein nor Mr. Tabash have distributed the debate tapes themselves. You would think, however, that if they were confident of their victories that they would want to get them into as many hands as possible.
8 For a copy of the press release see the SCCCS web site.
9 The press release was indeed harsh at points, but sometimes harshness is appropriate. Jesus and Paul were harsh to those who blasphemed against God and those who tried to subvert the Christian faith (Matt. 24; Gal. 1:8, 9) and so harshness is not necessarily incompatible with Christian ethics. Dr. Martin is a man who publishes books attacking the existence of God and the Christian faith and yet refuses to defend his views in a recorded verbal exchange. This is cowardly and should be labeled so.
10 For a detailed discussion of transcendental arguments in general and TAG in particular, see Dr. Bahnsen's and my tape series, "Transcendental Arguments: Nuclear Strength Apologetics." Available from CMF: Catalog #ASV7-10 tapes-$55.
11 Found in the Autumn 1996 issue of The New Zealand Rationalist & Humanist and on the "Internet Infidel" Internet web site: [http://freethought.tamu.edu/infidels].
12 This is not to say, however, that atheists never act morally. Atheists feed their children, give money to charity and often make good neighbors. But atheists cannot give a justification for their actions. In the words of Cornelius Van Til, they are living on "borrowed capital" from the Christian worldview. Thus they profess one thing, but their actions belie this profession.
13 This is the approach that Professor John Frame has taken in his exchanges with Dr. Martin. These exchanges can be found on the Internet under the Center for Reformed Theology and Apologetics home page: [http://www.reformed.org/apologetics/martin_TAG.html]
14 Bracketed numerals are mine.
15 Note the absurdity of [4] which asserts that God can make the law of non-contradiction false. Since for something to be false it must be not true, which assumes there is a distinction between falsity and truth. This distinction is precisely what the law of non-contradiction implies. Thus to say the law of non-contradiction is false is to presuppose the truth of the law of non-contradiction.
16 The view that logic is based upon observation is thoroughly refuted by Gottlob Frege in The Foundations of Arithmetic (Evanston: Northwestern University Press, 1980).
17 Greg L. Bahnsen, "The Problem of Miracles: Part 1," Biblical Worldview, Vol. IX:7 (July 1993).
18 Hume's discussion of this problem (often called the traditional problem of induction) is found in his An Inquiry Concerning Human Understanding, section IV.
19 For elaboration of this point see Dr. Bahnsen's debate with Mr. Tabash. CMF catalog #AST2-2 tapes-$17.
20 Voluntarism is the view that God's will is His primary attribute. Accordingly, God can will whatever He wants and can even change His mind. Thus God can one day assert the goodness of preserving life and the next assert the goodness of murder. The medieval theologians Duns Scotus and William Occam were advocates of this view.
21 Greg L. Bahnsen, "Does the Unbeliever Take Evil Seriously? The Problem of Evil: Part 2" Biblical Worldview, Vol. VII:12 (Dec. 1991).

22 For an analytical discussion of this psychological phenomenon see Greg L. Bahnsen, "The Apologetical Implications of Self-Deception," available from CMF: Catalog #ASD4-2 tapes-$10.

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