Re: Factory Question... Posted By: JeffB Date: 21 Jan 2001, 05:01 In Response To: Factory Question... (Starboy) (after reading responses to the thread) - Some corrections and facts : The only customers for a 125Mw shield factory are Boron Equipment Docks (unless you extract the 125Mw shields yourself and then sell them to any equipment dock yourself). Queen's Space is an IDEAL place for a 125Mw Shield Factory - plenty of energy, equidistant (2 sectors) to 2 Boron Equipment Docks. The 125Mw Factory cycle time is 16:36:00 It takes 14940 Energy Cells, 2490 BoFu and 2490 Ore to make one 125Mw shield. The factory *can* produce and stock up to two 125Mw shields; this probably won't happen unless you set "Sell to other Races" = OFF, becuae there is only one NPC 125Mw Shield Factory - your factory will PROBABLY sell the shields as fast (urr.. umm.. "as slow") as it produces them. The factory will attempt to stock to and maintain levels of : 40000 Energy Cells, 6666 Bofu, 6666 Ore. And finally, no matter how you price things (even if you set the 125Mw shield price to the minimum - 1660000 Cr) you can expect approximately a half a million credits per shield produced. There is no reason NOT to set it to the average price, maybe higher. It will do better if you put in your own BoGas and BoFu stations there; I'd suggest 3x BoGas and 5x BoFu. At least 1 of the 3 BoGas and 1 of the 5 BoFu should be left to "Sell to other Races = OFF" to assure that the 125Mw factory *always* has a supply of BoFu at whatever price you want. If you DON'T want to do this, then I've found that buying BoFu at ~300 Cr works well - you STILL make about 1/2 million in profit per 125Mw Shield produced. > Hi, I was wondering, how much does the computer know > about the universe. If I was to clear a system in the > middle of Pirate teratory and fill it with all the > stuff required to make 125MW shield for example, would > any of the races buy them? or would it only work if it > was a Boron system? > I know I could always sell them myself. > also, does the trade rating go up as a result of a > factory selling something, or only if I sell it > myself?? > Thanks > -Starboy Re: Factory Question... Posted By: Paul Knibbs Date: 21 Jan 2001, 07:46 In Response To: Re: Factory Question... (Tharn) > I was not suggesting every factory!! That would take > years. I guess I am just looking for an exception to > the rule, or at the least, to know what the possible > range is. My sense is that Egosoft has balanced > everything down to exactly the same pathetic level. > Reasonable in a certain sense, but I miss the range of > profit rates that XBTF had. That's my sense too--and it seems pointless to me; why would you go to all the effort and expense of buying a 125MW shield factory and stocking it up when it doesn't return any more profit than the average Plankton Farm? I think Egosoft messed up bigtime here, in that expensive, difficult to run factories SHOULD run at higher profit rates than smaller ones. Re: Factory Question... Posted By: Paul Knibbs Date: 21 Jan 2001, 09:00 In Response To: Re: Factory Question... (JeffB) > I thought about it, but there are so many variables > that a complete analysis could take years. I've just done some simple calculations based on your database--basically I just worked out the maximum profit per hour a factory could make, assuming it bought resources at minimum (Ore at 89, not 87, for obvious reasons) and sold its produce at maximum. The numbers for shield factories follow: 1MW--Argon 4350, Boron -3450, Split 5850, Teladi 9150 5MW--Paranid 60216, Teladi 59016 25MW--53658 125MW--44358 There are a few bizarre things here. For instance, the potentially most profitable factory is actually the 5MW shield plant--the big, expensive plants are LESS profitable! Of course, you're more likely to be able to sell 25MW and 125MW shields at maximum price, but even so I found this a little odd. Secondly, the factories produced by different races have different profitability factors due to the different foodstuffs involved. This is particularly noticeable on the 1MW shield plant. Lastly, it is not physically possible to make a profit with a Boron 1MW shield factory--it will lose money even under the excessively beneficial circumstances assumed in this test! Either there's a mistake in your database, which I think unlikely, or Egosoft have messed up big time when working out the production ratios for this factory. (Normally they seem to be set up to just about break even with everything set to Average). Basically, I think this confirms my impression that Egosoft have not thought through the factory setup sufficiently. Big, expensive factories MUST make more profit than weedy little ones, or there's little point in building the things! Over to anyone who wants to add their comments to the thread... DOH!!! Posted By: Paul Knibbs Date: 21 Jan 2001, 10:30 In Response To: Re: Factory Question... (Paul Knibbs) > 1MW--Argon 4350, Boron -3450, Split 5850, Teladi 9150 > 5MW--Paranid 60216, Teladi 59016 > 25MW--53658 > 125MW--44358 OK, it's official--I'm an idiot. I failed to notice that the production cycle for the 1MW shield factory was for TWO shields, not one--this considerably changes the numbers: 1MW--Argon 58650, Boron 50850, Split 60150, Teladi 63450 So, the bit about 1MW shield factories not being profitable should be ignored--however, we STILL have a situation where the smaller factories are potentially more profitable than the big ones, which is the main thrust of my original post. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a brick wall to bang my head repeatedly against... Re: DOH!!! Posted By: JeffB Date: 22 Jan 2001, 04:41 In Response To: DOH!!! (Paul Knibbs) We posted responses at approximately the same time. :) Anyway - yes, I see your point - very clearly. I just don't .... "feel bothered" by it particularly. I guess I can offer this, don't know how valid it is : Volkswagons are relatively cheap. A Rolls Royce is expensive. The company that make Volkswagons makes less profit - per - Volkswagon than the Roll Royce company makes for every Rolls Royce that is produced and sold. But how many people buy volkswagons as opposed to how many people buy Rolls Royces? > OK, it's official--I'm an idiot. I failed to notice > that the production cycle for the 1MW shield factory > was for TWO shields, not one--this considerably > changes the numbers: > 1MW--Argon 58650, Boron 50850, Split 60150, Teladi > 63450 > So, the bit about 1MW shield factories not being > profitable should be ignored--however, we STILL have a > situation where the smaller factories are potentially > more profitable than the big ones, which is the main > thrust of my original post. > Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a brick wall to bang > my head repeatedly against... Re: Factory Question... Posted By: JeffB Date: 22 Jan 2001, 04:33 In Response To: Re: Factory Question... (Paul Knibbs) I agree with all of your points, I guess I've "learned to live with it"... simply put Egosoft wanted X-T factories to be less profitable then XBTF factories - I also remember somewhere a statement made by Egosoft that players would have to THINK about where they put factories, and how they would be set up - that it would take some effort, unlike XBTF. One thing : > Lastly, it is not physically possible to make a profit > with a Boron 1MW shield factory--it will lose money > even under the excessively beneficial circumstances > assumed in this test! Either there's a mistake in your > database, which I think unlikely, or Egosoft have > messed up big time when working out the production > ratios for this factory. (Normally they seem to be set > up to just about break even with everything set to > Average). I just checked to make ABSOLUTELY SURE - no mistakes. And the 1Mw shield factory produces *2* 1Mw shields per factory cycle... (stocks to about 110) If you set it up like this... 1Mw shield : 4866 (1/4 on the price scale, midway between minimum and average) - 2 produced in a cycle = 9732 Credits Energy cells : 11 Cr (a good number); 90 consumed in the cycle = 990 Cr BoFu : 300 Cr (HIGHER than average); 15 consumed in the cycle = 4500 Cr Ore : 90 Cr ; 15 consumed, = 1350 Cr Total resource cost per cycle = 6840 CR Theoretical MINIMUM profit per cycle-of-products : (9732-6840) : 2892 Cr It will be more than 2892 profit becuase the factory is going to buy energy at LESS THAN 11 Cr much of the time / most of the time. Often it will find BoFu at less than 300 Cr. So the profit is 2892+ Re: Factory Question... Posted By: JeffB Date: 21 Jan 2001, 05:05 In Response To: Factory Question... (Starboy) > also, does the trade rating go up as a result of a > factory selling something, or only if I sell it > myself?? > Thanks > -Starboy Your Trade Rank goes up if you are personally flying the ship that you are trading with, OR if you are remote-directing it, controlling it to buy and sell from a remote location. Factory activity DOES NOT affect Trade Rank. Re: You didn't use a cheat save game did you..... Posted By: JeffB Date: 17 Jan 2001, 23:31 In Response To: Re: You didn't use a cheat save game did you..... (Lisa) > Of course I cheated. Like I gut the patience to wait > all that time, to buy everything. I cheated, sure did. > Proud of it too. Hee hee, ^**(( Happens!!!!! I like your attitude - cheer-e-o, refreshing. :) Nice to see on this forum. Anyway - Lisa - even if 125Mw shields aren't *really* being purchased in "real time", they DO disappear from equipment docks occasionally - the game "simulates" a market for them. One factory to consider getting is your own 125Mw shield factory. You can get the thing in Lucky Planets shipyard - I would suggest putting it in Queens Space (lotz of Solar Power Plants, also exactly 2 sectors away from the Boron Equipment Docks in Kingdom End and Rolks Fate). Its a "resource monster" though - it wants LOTZ of STUFF! The database I did can help with factories - you can get it on Erazors or Commander Jamieson's site - also I think Apothos mentioned posting it.